Up until now, I haven’t participated in the gay marriage debate currently raging in Australia.
This is for one good reason – I honestly don’t know what I think.
How can I talk about it – let alone vote on the matter – when I’m not even sure what my own opinion is?!
I’m hearing so much about it, both for and against, everywhere I turn – to the point where I am beginning to wonder: Am I the only one facing this dilemma?
I Don’t Know What It’s Like to Be Gay
Although there are many thoughts running through my head about the whole issue of marriage equality, I’m honest enough to admit that I *don’t* have the answer or know what’s for the best.
And that I know very little about what it’s like to be gay.
Sure, I’ve met gay people and they seem pretty normal to me (although it has to be said, my gaydar is pretty hopeless. It took me over a year to realise that two of my male colleagues were gay, in one of my workplaces!).
But I’ve never had a gay person in my immediate family or circle of friends (although there are a couple in my extended family), so I don’t really know much about it. I suspect folk are just born gay, rather than making a conscious decision or choice.
My Thoughts on Gay Marriage
Here are just some of my thoughts … as a heterosexual female, married for over 27 years, and with a mostly Christian background:
- Why is gay marriage such a big deal anyways? Marriage certainly doesn’t seem to have the same meaning these days, with 1 in 3 couples divorcing.
- But at the same time – I love being married, so I can understand why gay people might want that experience.
- Society’s views have changed so much just in my lifetime – not all that long ago it was illegal to be gay. What next?
- Who am I to tell others how to live their lives?
- And – what right does the Church have to tell people how to live their lives, when the Church is not part of their lives (or even if it is?!)?
- Why do we frown so much on gay marriage when it is about love?
- Who says that being gay is a. sinful; and b. a greater sin than being a liar, a gossip, or a murderer? All of these can get married!
- If gay marriage became a reality – what are the consequences for our society in the long term?
- What is the current situation? Are gay de facto couples recognised by the government? Do they get the same benefits/rights as heterosexual de facto couples? If so, why not let them get married then?
- Just off the top of my head, I know of three other middle aged mamas (two from Christian backgrounds), with an adult child who has come out and wants to be able to marry their partner if they choose.
- Will the vocal minority win out ie – either the gay population, or the religious right?
- Whenever an issue has been put to the vote in my experience, the NO vote wins (think daylight saving in Queensland, Australia becoming a republic) – probably because we don’t like change.
- What do most people REALLY think?
- When Christians say, “the Bible says … ” – what about all the other things the Bible says which we don’t observe or follow today? When was the last time we stoned an adulterer, or refused to eat shellfish or pork because it was unclean … ?
- God loves all of us, gay, straight, black, white, pink with purple polka dots …
- Would children of gay marriages really be any worse off? Seems to me a lot of heterosexual people shouldn’t be allowed to have kids – and yet they do!
- Isn’t it a positive if an adult is able to maintain a loving, lasting relationship, regardless of their gender?
- Look, I don’t want to see gay couples making out in real life or on television etc. I find it a bit icky. But before you take me to task, please know that I don’t like seeing heterosexual couples getting carried away either. As my kids would say, “Get a room” if that’s what you wanna do!
- And at the end of the day: it’s none of my business what other people do in the privacy of their own homes.
Sigh … you can see why I don’t know where I really stand on this issue.
There will be some people (those in Christians circles) likely to be shocked and dismayed that I am not joining “the cause”.
Yet at the same time I may seem apathetic, or judgemental to others.
I’m trying to figure out what I believe, and what I think, rather than what I’ve been taught to think and believe.
Surely I am not the only one that really doesn’t have a clue? Is it okay to really NOT have an opinion?!
We as a country are being held hostage by a small group of politicians and our prime minister is choosing to negotiate with them rather than just allowing a free vote in parliament. His political career which is already doubtful going forwards will be completely ruined if he chooses to spend 122 million on this vote which is non binding and also possibly not legal. I hope the high court will put a stop to it.
Politicians are not there to impose their views onto us. They are there to represent the people who voted for them. That is their actual job. If they did that, we’d have gay marriage already. And that is the part that really annoys me.
I wish we could get leather jacket Malcolm back, the one who said what he thought and did what he thought, not this hologram of that man who looks a little bit like him but seems to have lost all his backbone.
The sense I get when I am out and about is that people are outright furious with the politicians. I’ve heard several people say, Ted Bullpit style, someone should blow them all up, which is such an Aussie saying and yet nobody would act on it. Where they blow things up is the ballot box, and I think the Liberal and National parties will experience the anger of Australia in a very numbers related way at the next election.
I think it’s a shame that they are spending so much on a plebiscite, money which could be well spent on other things. It feels like a cop out to me on the part of our pollies.
Hi Janet. I think you are probably like most folk who find it all so confusing. All of your questions are valid. Gay unions are covered under civil acts. Their community does not need marriage. What they are seeking to do is to redefine the term so that it can be made to include whatever or whoever. That is why it needs to be defended. The activists are alienating everyone with their anti-social and intolerant behaviour. One blog I read compared it to a two year old tantrum. Corporations (Google and Qantas) and Local Councils (one in Melbourne) are sacking employees for defending traditional marriage. It’s not just about gays being allowed their lifestyle. We need to be considerate and reasonable as Christians in all of this. We gave up our right to defend marriage when we embraced divorce – Christians divorce at the same rate as the ‘world.’ But I will be saying ‘No’ (although I am very interested in just how the question will be phrased). I also agree with your points about displays of homosexual affection in public. You and I would not be allowed to carry on with our own husbands that way. For your research, check out what is going on in Canada and Massachusetts, U.S. where the legislation has gone through. I had a cousin who died because of his gay lifestyle. He had a long term partner and I think they had a ceremony. I will never forget how upset his mother, my aunt, was when he left the house one day in her mink coat.
We’re all sinners, Jesus died for all of us. We need to find ways to present the gospel in all of this. We also need ways to set the agenda. For so many years it has been what the media wants us to talk about. Thanks for your honesty in this blog and thanks for helping me put some thoughts together because mine were all over the place too. XXox
Thanks Raelene for your thoughts and not condemning me for having so many questions!!!
I can try to share my answers to some of your questions:
“Why is gay marriage such a big deal anyways? Marriage certainly doesn’t seem to have the same meaning these days, with 1 in 3 couples divorcing. But at the same time – I love being married, so I can understand why gay people might want that experience.”
Legal recognition has impacts on all stages of life. When asked/seeing this question I think of the couple who were on honeymoon in SA and one of them died. Their husband was not allowed to be involved in the funeral etc. They were legally married and treated as though they were a stranger. There are many reasons that people may want a legal marriage and the reasons vary person to person no matter if it is a heterosexual marriage or not.
“Society’s views have changed so much just in my lifetime – not all that long ago it was illegal to be gay. What next? In 50 years’ time will we have people pushing to marry their pets?”
No, people will not be able to marry their pets or anything like that as marriage is a legal contract and you must be able to consent to a contract. A pet cannot consent. Also, anthro 101 is that culture is not static. It never has been and it never will be, no matter how much some people want things to never change.
“Who am I to tell others how to live their lives? And – what right does the Church have to tell people how to live their lives, when the Church is not part of their lives (or even if it is?!)?”
Church is an important part of many people’s lives. But we do not have a legislated religion in Australia. I believe it is fair to say many people come from a Christian tradition. But having a common background does not make it reasonable to impose that view on all people of the country. And yes, I do think that confining the definition of marriage to that of a Christian view is imposing a religious structure on those who are not religious.
“Why do we frown so much on gay marriage when it is about love? Who says that being gay is a. sinful; and b. a greater sin than being a liar, a gossip, or a murderer? All of these can get married!”
This is a good point. Love is love. Consenting adults are consenting adults.
“Whenever an issue has been put to the vote in my experience, the NO vote wins (think daylight saving in Queensland, Australia becoming a republic) – probably because we don’t like change.”
Agreed. I think the vote is a waste of time when we weren’t asked to vote on it being changed in the first place. It’s more usual stupid politics to me, though I have no idea what endgame they really have with this. Both political parties need to actually show proper leadership and not just snipe at each other all the time. On any issue!!
“When Christians say, “the Bible says … ” – what about all the other things the Bible says which we don’t observe or follow today? When was the last time we stoned an adulterer, or refused to eat shellfish or pork because it was unclean … ?”
Picking and choosing is sadly a part of most people’s belief system. Why the fixation on this one thing though..?
“Would children of gay marriages really be any worse off? Seems to me a lot of heterosexual people shouldn’t be allowed to have kids – and yet they do!”
If marriage is ALL about kids (as some plaques seem to say – I have no idea how genuinely representative those people are), then I have the following things to say: I should not be allowed to be married as I do not want kids. Maybe we should make sure heterosexual couples are able to procreate before letting them marry? Perhaps if someone becomes a single parent for any reason they should have their kids taken off of them if remarriage isn’t immediate?
Those are all things that support the idea of marriage being one man and one woman for the purpose of raising children. I’d say all of those would be scoffed at. But it’s the same theory with small, logical steps to the same end. Basically, kids are not what marriage is about for everyone.
“Isn’t it a positive if an adult is able to maintain a loving, lasting relationship, regardless of their gender?”
I think so, yes.
“Look, I don’t want to see gay couples making out in real life or on television etc. I find it a bit icky. But before you take me to tas, please know that I don’t like seeing heterosexual couples getting carried away either. As my kids would say, “Get a room” if that’s what you wanna do!”
I think many people do feel this way and are afraid to express it. But we all have different opinions on what is an acceptable level of PDAs, so … it doesn’t matter what your comfort level is. It matters that people can live a safe and open life. I know this isn’t you, Janet, at all – but people do get beaten up or worse for not hiding their sexuality. I do want people to feel safe holding hands walking down the street (as an example).
“And at the end of the day: it’s none of my business what other people do in the privacy of their own homes.”
No, it’s really not. But the lack of legal recognition can impact peoples public lives too.
Nicely said Vanessa
Brilliant comment Vanessa. You addressed various points rationally and clearly and have given me plenty of food for thought x
Your post intrigued me as I don’t know anyone personally who opposes gay marriage or even who is ‘unsure’. Bottom line: it doesn’t matter what anybody thinks on the matter. Human rights shouldn’t need to be debated politically. But if vote we must… The only humane response is ‘yes’. Everyone should have the right to marry, divorce, not marry, not divorce, anyone they want. Even “at first sight”. Even drunk in Vegas. By the way, legal rights in relationships/families differ between married /unmarried couples. Equality matters- love is love.
Well said Anna – this is about equality – nothing else. I am also getting tired of ‘Christian beliefs’ being used – I am not a Christian – I am of no faith and yet I am married – not about religion at all – equality above all else!!!!!
Anna, obviously I come from a very different background / circle / upbringing to you! The matter of legal rights is something I hadn’t previously thought of and is definitely something worth considering.
Amy’s post might help you and some of your readers with some of the issues you’re facing: http://www.handbagmafia.net/same-sex-marriage-plebiscite/
Thanks Beth, I’ll check it out!
I applaud your honesty! I have many gay friends. Not all of them see themselves wanting to get married one day but for me it all boils down to the fact that straight people get a choice. They know that they are CHOOSING to get married or not get married. They are not denied of that right. To not have a choice hurts and makes people feel like second class citizens. At the end of the day it’s about love and commitment. Something that can benefit all parts of society. If a child of mine ever came out, I would want them to have the same rights I do. It would hurt so much if they couldn’t or if my fight for them was futile.
I don’t think anyone will ever suddenly be allowed to marry animals etc – that ‘slippery slope’ argument doesn’t actually stand up in my opinion. I can’t write an essay here, but I will be voting yes because to me, this is about equality.
Thanks Kez. I can’t help thinking there must be a lot of other people out there like me, who have been told certain things for many years but have come to question and want to see things from all sides. It seems all we hear is people either 100% for or against, and nothing from the fence sitters like me – I wanted to give the fence sitters a voice and some respectful discussion to think over!
It sounds to me that you have already made your choice. If you can’t see any reason why some folk aught not get married, then a yes vote is obvious.
LOL Sue I thought exactly the same thing when I read back over my post!
I too am surprised that you feel conflicted (no criticism intended). We do have very good friends who happen to be gay. They have been together longer than most heterosexual couples we know. They may not choose to get married but that should be their choice not the choice of the Government. They do however face serious legal issues that impact estate planning and the like.
As for religion, the Government could have put up legislation that allowed churches to exclude gay marriage should they wish but instead they chose to waste a huge amount of money on a plebiscite which they will not consider binding. Disgusted.
None taken Jan 🙂 . I guess we are all a product of our background and experiences, I have reached a point in my life (second adolescence perhaps?!) where I am starting to question a lot of things. The impact on estate planning is definitely a very good point. Regardless of where we stand on gay marriage, I think we ALL agree that the plebiscite is a waste of public funds that could be put to use elsewhere!!! I
I think it comes down to a very simple issue – the right of two consenting adults to get married, regardless of their gender. If a conservative country like Ireland can bring in same sex marriage then I find it hard to understand why it’s become such a big deal in Australia. I agree with the first post – Turnbull is a weak leader who is beholden to the right wing of his party, otherwise parliament would have had a free vote on the issue by now, instead of spending millions on this stupid postal survey which is not even binding! The latest survey shows that 63% of the population support the idea but not everyone will bother to fill in the survey as they are not personally affected.
Hi June, as my stepmum you know me better than pretty much everybody who has commented, so you would realise that even admitting to my thoughts and questions is a HUGE step for me. Without doubt there will be people shocked that I am leaning towards a yes (there I admitted it). Maybe I’m going through “adolescence” a bit late – never got the chance previously due to trauma?! And you’re right, the plebiscite is a cop out by the pollies and a waste of money.
Hi Janet,
I also think you are leaning towards a yes vote. As a lesbian I think this is the only respectful choice for Australians to make. We are all human and as such have rights. Why do we try endlessly to make some people more human than others?
Hi Annie, lovely to hear from you. I hope you didn’t find my post offensive or hurtful, it certainly wasn’t intended that way. While my post has inflamed some (eg on my Facebook), I’m still glad I did it. It allowed me to clarify my own thoughts and I have followed the discussions with interest. I’m the first to admit I know very little about the matter which is why I wanted to look at it from all perspectives.
Not at all Cuz. I read it with interest and I have heard all of the ‘fors’ and ‘againsts’ many times. Everyone has to work this out. And as your readers have pointed out, some ‘againsts’ are ridiculous. We don’t understand or accept differences easily, if at all. It always hurts when you are the one who is different
I’m voting yes!
Now there’s a girl who knows her own mind!!!!
I’m for… and I’m not even married myself!! Paul and I have been together for 22 years and have four kids and have never felt the beed to get married. But we’re all different and U do believe in equality. Good to see you wrestle with it all with honesty.
LOL, but you are right, at least we have the choice.
Wow great post and what some amazing responses 🙂 I think it’s great that you have lots of questions. If we don’t question things how can we truly understand? Too many people just do or say things because it’s the politically correct thing to do without ever questioning anything. Living in a democracy means we should get to have a say in how things are run, so we should exercise that right – but be truly responsible about it. Anyway … I’ve been lucky to meet, get to know and also interview (for magazines) lots of gay folk, and based on what I understand … I’m for 🙂
I’ve led a pretty sheltered life in many ways Jo!
I have found it interesting to read your post, it is not something I had thought of. I have a firm opinion but also feel it’s not my position to judge others for their opinion of lack of. I feel very firmly for us all having the right to marry, for me love is love and we should all have the chance to celebrate that. I hope you are able to come to a conclusion that makes you comfortable.
Thanks Nicole! Somebody posted a picture on Facebook about all the arguments against women having the vote, approximately 100 years ago – they seem laughable now, it will probably be the same about gay marriage in due course!
I’m only catching up on my blog reading right now Janet. I read this post, but never responded. I could have written your post when the plebiscite was announced, but after doing a lot of reading and thinking and praying, I know exactly how I will vote.
What has been difficult is watching sides fight and people who represent my faith, drive hate towards those in a same sex relationship. It’s not right. And I believe God wouldn’t be proud of what has been said and advertised. Thank you for sharing your post. I love the honesty and transparency of your heart. xx
Mwah thank you Bec x
Thank you. I found this article both interesting and courageous. I am definite in my vote and see it as an issue of citizenship rather than sexuality. So it was enjoyable for me to read different perspectives that may present a dilemma for other people. Regardless of how each of us might vote I think we are all agreed that this is not how we want our public dollars spent.
Hi Tracy and welcome 🙂 . It’s really become a bit of a bun fight in the media hasn’t it. I didn’t realise how courageous I would have to be when I mentioned that I didn’t yet have an opinion, until I copped a bit of flak over it on Facebook! The good news is though I have now made up my mind which was I am going to vote – and yes I will be voting even though it’s not obligatory.